The Death of the Debate Culture

The debate culture is killed. No, it is actually murdered, by the people over the recent years. Why? Because it gets heated and may lead into violence. So why debate at all? Leave it all to individualism. So the society is breaking its thread slowly. Man is becoming individualistic. When man becomes solo, he becomes psycho and violent.

Society living forces man to become accommodative and appreciative of the differences. If you follow, Hindu tenets, the culture is so vibrant only due to its accommodation of various differences without killing the differences. There is appreciation of differences between opposing communities also. Communities are allowed to freely find their living and non-living gods.

For example in JP Nagar, Bangalore, we have 2 main local deities. Banashankari and Shakhambari.

Banashankari: Bana means Vana which is Forest. She is the forest god. The communities in ancient times lived on the forest produce & trade and they worshipped her as the Adhidevatha of Forest.
Shakhambari: Shakha means vegetables. The communities cleared forest to grow vegetables for their living & trade. So she becomes the Adhidevatha for the vegetable growers.
So if you see these 2 communities lives are in contrast. One protects the forest but the other clears it for their living. But they live in harmony! They respect each other’s god also equally.

Of course, there are skirmishes and violence erupted between communities in ancient India & even today. But what killed that violence? It is the reasoning and debate culture. Understanding and appreciating differences. Then coming to terms with harmonious living. Ultimately harmony prevailed & is sustained for many millennia.

Debate Culture in Ancient India

In India they say, the Veda’s were revealed to the Rishis and Munis by nature or by God himself. But being rationalist, I would not agree with that explanation. I agree with some saying, that it evolved over a period of many centuries through long debates. In Vedic periods, Yaga, Yagna was held for centuries in patronage of wealthy kings where there was large congregation of many Rishis. The story of debates and wins in those Yagna is well described in various later day texts. Through those debates of different views and opinions, the Vedas must have emerged.

In Mahabharatha, Bheeshma Parva is probably one of the largest sections. In that, it is all about stories & stories told by Bheeshma to Yudhistrira through long debates and questions. Bheeshma is a pithamaha having seen the world through his own eyes for 3 generations. He has immense practical knowledge. When is he is on Shara Shaiye (Bed of Arrows), Yudhistira after having won a long fought battle, which is a Dharma Yuddha considered Dharma’s win over Adharma, approaches the pithamaha to learn about what is Dharma and how to keep it up while he is the King of such a large kingdom? One of the main things he teaches through those various stories is that, god has created a divergent world. A Raja has to understand, appreciate and ensure harmony through maintaining those differences and not killing the differences.   

Bhagavad Geeta is basically Nara-Narayana Samvada, means dialogue between Man & God. Nara means Man, represented by Arjuna. God is represented by Krishna. Man is always in dilemma. He is confused what is right and what is not. In the middle of the war, Arjuna is in dilemma. Krishna is calm and at bliss even at the congruence of 2 largest armies, ready with venomous attack on each other. Krishna gives Vishwaroopa darshana to Arjuna & reasons with him to go to Dharma Yuddha. Arjuna listens and follows. Similarly when Krishna goes for Sandhana, not to go for war and reasons with Duryodhana, he does not listen. So the war breaks out. Dharma prevails.

Debate Culture in Medieval India

Chanakya the author of the Arthasasthra is another genius detailing various aspects of Raja Dharma. He emphasized the prevalent theory of: Sama, Dana, Danda, Bhedha: Means: Reasoning, Money Attraction, Force & Divide respectively, in that order of priority while dealing in political situations of differences cropping up between various groups. So here always, the first one takes preference and time consuming. One has to get into the reasoning first to take issues head on and resolve it through debate & reasoning.

Many religions came about in medieval India and still persist. Reasoning and debate was the basis of these religions. Budhism, Jainism came about espousing their theory in peace. Attracting people into their fold through utmost reasoning. In their quest for larger influence on the populace, they impressed Raja (King) and then carried out their conversion of the Praja (Public).

The great revival for Hinduism happened through Sankaracharya. This again was through peaceful means of reasoning and influencing the political powers of the day.

Of course there were community violence, attacks, burning, beheading breaking the long peace in pockets. But those skirmishes were quelled mostly by intellects invoking society reforms.

Thus you see, in Kannada history, great Jain literature coming out from the Hindu kings patronage. Pampa, Ranna, Janna, etc., were Jain poets, who produced great works under the ages of Hindu kings. Hoysala kings were Jains. They produced some of the sculptural marvels second to none in the world Viz., Belur, Halebid sculptures. In these great sculptures, everything is discussed from Puranas, Mahabharatha to visiting Chinese monks. Even sex is not a taboo for depicting. Nothing, absolutely nothing should be taboo for healthy discussing, debating and depicting in a peaceful society. Across India the same open culture persisted.

The great debates on Advaitha, Vishishtadvaitha, Dvaitha happened under the various Kings courts and patronage. Vijayanagara kingdom is termed as Golden Age of Hindu Culture. Under their rule, there was freedom of thought and expression. Dasa Sahitya took root and flourished well in their kingdom. All the 3 philosophies flourished well across the Deccan peninsula.  They protected the great monuments, temples, enhanced all ancient temples with their signature Gopura, Praakaara & Pushkarani. Not only Hindu temples, but the Jain basadi’s, monuments of significance were made to thrive. Muslim monuments were protected and they were allowed to absorb the Hindu tolerant culture.

Amartya Sen has written a book on Indian Debate Culture titled “Argumentative Indian”. It is a big book with very poor content. A thorough review is put up in another blog: http://npraveer.blogspot.in/2014/02/the-argumentative-indian-by-amartya-sen.html

Onslaught of Debate Culture by Islam in India:

The Islamic invasion on India started around 8^th century CE. Various invaders like Afghans, Turks, Moghuls, and Arabs invaded India & established their kingdoms here. Moghuls in north India and Arabs in South India had profound impact on Indian society and are well assimilated today in India.

The Islam’s debate culture is through “Jihad”. Jihad is a means of spreading the Islam tenets. But Jihad also espouses violent means to spread their religion. Jihad explained in Quran is highly inconsistent & incoherent. Scholars who want to engage with the scholars of other community for meaningful dialogue use it peacefully. But there is hardly any evidence of conversion through those peaceful means. Al-Beruni, Ibn Battuta were scholars of eminence and travelers of that time from Mid-East, accompanying invading Sultans. They were more impressed with the Indian scholars and translated great many Sanskrit works but never succeeded in conversions or may be too overwhelmed to get into theological dialogue.

But the barbaric invading army used the violent Jihad means, to loot, destroy temples, treasures. Anyone who wanted to question the Islam tenets or wanted to debate its merits were termed Kafirs and bulldozed.  All across India today, many of the great temples, monuments are mute evidences of their onslaught. Halebeedu and Hampi stand as grandeur cut to pieces in Karnataka.

The Hindus were caught unawares completely for this kind of barbaric culture of conversion in the name of God! For them God was a means of providing sustenance of life and livelihood. They could not fathom what is happening around.

The scholars and upper casts kept Muslims away and did not bother to engage with them for the fear of life. Invaders converted any hapless people who came on their way, through many cruel means.

Today, in India while in many work places, Hindus, Muslims work together. But there is very high fear of broaching the subject of religion or its merits, demerits. Lets keep it professional at work and not discuss faith & not mingle socially; is the way of life today. The onslaught of debate culture is near complete here.

Christian Propaganda Vs Debate

The Europeans came to India lured by her wealth. As they started establishing their political power, they also brought in their religion. And Christianity thrives on the missionary actions. They started directly with propaganda culture than wasting time in the debates. They had their successful experience of killing Pegan culture in Europe through those tactics. Through propaganda they started undermining Hindus. Indians were made to feel inferior. The superior culture was touted as coming through Aryans who they claimed were Europeans. Aryan invasion theory was ingrained so much, that it was there in our textbooks even in Independent India when we studied. Even today after so much of research and UN resolution rubbishing the Aryan invasion theory, many scholars do believe in that & write about it.

Swami Vivekananda outraged over this propaganda culture, went into their territory called for some meaningful research and dialogue. He was well received by the open westerners in the United States.

Raja Ram Mohan Roy was one of the great Social Reformist during British India. He was fighting to remove the various superstitious practices in Hindus. He formed Brahmo Samaj towards this cause. An impressed Christian Pastor invited him for debate over the religious tenets of Hinduism and Christianity. It went for few weeks. And the at the end of it, the Pastor converted to become a Hindu Sanyasi, and Rajaram brought in various Christian tenets into his Brahmo Samaj for the revival of the Hindu Samaj.

The missionaries even today, are carrying out their propaganda culture in urban slums and in tribal areas. Those, less educated and impoverished fall for their propaganda & monetary attractions. And there is no debate culture in those echelons of class.

Today, Religion & Faith is a Taboo:

Recently a third rate Indologist wrote a book on India. Certain person took legal route to ban its publishing stating it hurt Indians. It is so Un-Hindu culture. It made the undeserving author & her book famous. It made us question our openness in book publishing. Social Media is more open!

Today due to the slow degradation and onslaught of foreign cultures, everything is a taboo for open discussion. Politics is taboo. Religion is taboo. Sex is taboo. Faith is taboo. Language is taboo. Caste is taboo. Even expressing Pride to be Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Or Kannadiga or Tamilian is a taboo.  We fear what they will brand me as. Nobody talks more than the twitter length on these subjects. Within that length you would be branded. For branding there are many isms.

No lengthy written debates. No assimilation of ideas. No lengthy reading.

Our work place is only profit & loss. School textbooks are only profit & loss. Politics is profit & loss. Religion is profit & loss. Sports is profit & loss. Even sociology is profit & loss.

The profit culture makes man chase his individual profit only. He becomes more individualistic & silos. No thought towards community good, no tolerance for differences, no appreciation of differences.

In the next article lets delve into Faith Conversion / Proselytization & its effect.  

It will be titled:
“Your God is My God” Vs “My God is Your God”

The Argumentative Indian by Amartya Sen: A Critical Review

It is a book on Indian History, culture and identity by the Nobel Laureate  Amartya Sen. He is economist attempting history writing. People across the world and India read it, blog it, believe it, write about it, refer it in future books! It has potential disastrous implications as it has many errors and narrow views on Hinduism & its culture presented by the author. The title makes us proud and we expect lot of pride exhibited throughout the book for the argumentative culture ingrained in the Indian culture. And that making our democracy thrive by our inherent nature. Sadly there is whole lot of sheen taken away from the book by the author’s obsession on politics, linking it to Gujarat riots and dedicating much debate on it. Author finds himself very guilty of being Indian origin rather than exhibiting pride and enthusing the youth to embrace the golden culture that we have.

 Aryan Invasion Theory

A quote of a paragraph from the book:

"
Despite its quintessential ‘Indianness’ , there is a general understanding that, in an early form, Sanskrit came to India from abroad in the 2^nd millennium BCE, with the migration of Indo-Europeans, and then it developed further and flourished magnificently in India. It is also interesting to note that the greatest grammarian in Sanskrit, namely Panini, who systematized and transformed Sanskrit grammar and phonetics around the fourth century BCE, was of Afghan origin (he describes his village on the banks of river Kabul). These foreign connections have not diminished the pride of classically minded Indians in that great language, nor in the exceptional achievements of the literature ….
"

Sanskrit came to India? From Europe? That’s a construed writing of history.

Max Mueller, a German Scholar, has done enough damage by his elaborate work in the past dictating that Aryans invaded India from central Asia & Europe. During his later years he himself has casted doubts over this invasion theory. The British historians conveniently ignored those reservations. Their imperial mindset compelled them to keep the invasion theory intact to undermine the Indians self-confidence. In post-independence also we read this invasion theory in our text books. I believe now it is corrected.

Following are some of the objections on this invasion theory:

1.       Author writes elsewhere Ashoka of 3^rd century BCE had his kingdom till today’s Afghanistan. Author shows his ignorance of that of the culture of India was there till Iran on east and Malaya, Indonesia in west. Just because Panini was from today’s Afghanistan, Sanskrit according to the author becomes a foreigner’s language. He deliberately ignores Afghanistan was Gandhara kingdom earlier. And that is also mentioned elsewhere in the same book in some other context. If Sanskrit was in Pataliputra (today’s patna), Kalinga and south of vindhyas and spread all the way upto Hindu Kush mountain ranges in afghanistan, then it means it was centered in India spread wide east and west. If it was European language it would start spreading from there. There is no evidential trace of that in history.

 

2.       All the references in Vedas, Upanishads have relations to the geographical boundary of the Indian subcontinent. The great Ramayana and Mahabharatha are considered as Ithihasa (History). These are written by specific authors Valmiki and Vyasa later than the Vedas. The geographical references in these books are spread all over the Indian subcontinent. Shiva’s abode of Kailasa is well revered by the Hindus, is in the Himalayas. All over India from Himalayas to Lanka, the mountains, rivers, villages, kingdoms, names of the people, local language scripts, poems, prose, books are inspired and derive everything from these rich ancient scriptures. Later the temples are built for the respective gods. One fails to understand where Europeans immigrating or invading India comes in these references. Europeans civilizations also don’t have these geographical references. Nor our scriptures mention Andes, Danube or Volga or anything close to that. The weather, tropical living, flora fauna references found in these scriptures are all related to Indian Subcontinent. If intelligent Europeans migrated here then surely they would write some reference to their previous dwelling. Or did they become suddenly intelligent once they touched Indian soil? No reference to that also. Their culture also differs quite widely. We worship cow as Gomatha. They use it as beef.  

3.       There is a section of historians who write about reference to horses which are aliens to the Indian subcontinent in the Sanskrit scriptures. Amartya Sen also take support of these arguments. These arguments are defeated by the fact that the trade existed across borders.  And horses might have got traded across to India from central Asia. And there is no richness of these language or cultural traditions in those areas equaling the Indus civilization, although the evidences of Greek civilization dates further back. Also the European countries also had to depend upon central Asia (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc.,) for fine horses. And then domesticate and grow further.  

4.       Even today, the philosophical depth found in India is unparalleled in the west. There is a vast difference in the culture of assimilation of diversity in India and the separatism & exclusivity expounded by the western cultures. There is no archeological evidence of invasion, nor there any cultural similarities.

Muslim Assimilation In India’s Culture

The author in his desperate attempt to appease the Muslim invaders & settlers in India, ends up criticizing today’s Hindus unnecessarily. Cultural assimilation attempts made by Akbar take great precedence in the book. No problem with that. Because Akbar, being a Muslim ruler and educated in Islam, still makes sincere attempts to assimilate the diversity purely based on reasoning.  No other Muslim ruler comes ever closer to that kind of tolerance for the divergence in the society. Every Muslim ruler either attacked the other religions places of worship or tried to convert the people and places of worship to Islam. In the book here, author says, there were some sporadic incidents like this from some Muslim rulers. Stating Aurangazeb, being the only least tolerant of the Muslim rulers, he takes on the todays Hindu’s discriminating and attacking Muslims.

Firstly, obviously the author has least knowledge or has shown deliberate ignorance about the Indian history and the Muslim rulers of the Moghuls, Bahmani sultanate, Tipu Sultan running a riot of faith conversions and destructions of temples of indigenous cultures.  

Secondly, in today’s India, the intolerance and separatism espoused by the Muslims is only increasing and creating pockets of Pakistan across India. In every riot, the instigators are Muslims. From their own community a prophet or a fakir has to emerge out to preach a sense of love towards other humans, throw their fears, and assimilate in the society. In fact several such fakirs came in their community at least in large numbers in India. Like Santha Shishunala Sharifa in Northern Karnataka came in the late 19^th century CE, and preached Allah and Allama are all same. But he got ousted from the inner learned circles of Islam and mosques. But the people at large across Hindus, Muslims respected and even today he is revered. Same is the case with Shirdi Sai Baba and several other such great saints across India.  

The belief that Mohammed is the last prophet and no one else can be prophet is retrograde. The social change is necessary in every region and every generation. There is constant cycle of evil overtaking good; and good then emerging through, creating a higher influence in the society. But both have a time and region context.

The scriptures guiding the Islam are never allowed to change. There is no debate. There is no reasoning allowed. Akbar himself initiated a religion Din-I-Lahi based on reasoning. But where is it now? The Sufi-ism which gave raise to some of the fine songs, music and love for humanity is out of the doors of the staunch Isalm. There is fatwa on Singing and dancing. Where comes love & tolerance then?

It should be noted that the Akbar’s attempts of assimilation of different cultures was the result of his open mindedness towards India’s diversity and positively influenced by it. And not that Akbar influenced India to be tolerant & argumentative. Similarly, Aurangazeb’s intolerance towards other religions was due to his Isalmic education and not due to his exposure to India’s multi-culture.

We must take pride in our culture creating positive influence on foreign invaders than trying to pacify Muslims by stating their rule was tolerant. It will be a lie.

Instead, we must look critically at why Muslim rule was intolerant and why are they espousing separatism even today. And why our politicians should not keep their culture on sale for votes. And debate it openly involving them amicably and asking for changing their stance for the good of the country, good of humanity. People are people, simple and moldable. The prophets, mullahs are intelligent, powerful influencers on people, should mold them in the right way. Create a tolerant community towards diversity and respect the India’s culture of argumentation and debate based on logic and reasoning. Author here doesn’t even delve this problem and solution area in such an interesting titled book. Honestly the title is such apt for a glorious cultural India. But the content is very disappointing and demoralizing for an Indian.

Obsession with Akbar

Here is another narrow view from the author quoted:

"
For India in particular, the tradition of secularism can be traced to the trend of tolerant and pluralist thinking that had begun to take root well before Akbar, …. But that tradition got its firmest official backing from Emperor Akbar himself. He also practiced as he preached – abolishing discriminatory taxes imposed earlier on non-muslims, …
"

Begun to take root? Firmest official backing? What is official? Is it only if it is from a pan India emperor? Obviously Amartya has only read Akbar and is obsessed with him. If other “official” rulers, kings, maharajas spread across India for many thousand years were not tolerant, plural there wouldn’t have been such a large canvas of culture, language, songs, music, dance forms, architecture, and many other human arts. The major philosophies like Advaitha, Vishishtadwaita, Dwaita flourished through debates, reasoning, interpretations of the vedas. These happened under the patronage of many kings in their courts across India. One simple example: Hoysala raja Bittideva was a Jain king of 11^th century became disciple of Ramanujacharya and became vaishnavaite, not at the point of sword edge, but through reasoning and understanding. He never destroyed Jain temples. Nor his successors did that. His wife, most revered in Karnataka for her dancing grace, Shantala, remained a devout Jain. Later Hoysala kingdom got destroyed and temples attacked by the Foreign Mohammedan invaders.

“abolishing discriminatory taxes imposed earlier on non-muslims”. Before Akbar there were about half a dozen Moghul rulers. That means here Amartya himself admits, that all of them supported imposing taxes on non-Muslims. After him, Aurangazeb brings back the pilgrimage taxation etc., That means Akbar is the only exception to discrimination culture of the Muslim rulers. And not as author keeps repeating that it was sporadic incidents of discrimination by the Muslim rulers. There are several incidents of Akbar being discriminatory against non-Muslims. But still, being a born Muslim and educated in Islam, I must admit he is a brave man to have taken such radical steps away from that religion’s dictate and managing the wrath of his advisors. May be that’s why ultimately he was overthrown by the faithful Islamist Aurangazeb.  

 India - China

India-China is a chapter I liked. Because we have in them, a comparison between a large thriving democracy and a large flexing economic superpower which is non-democratic next door. There are 2 types of statistical data generally studied in economics.

1.       Index of richness of a country are generally GDP, GNP. This will generally be due to the wealth generated and concentrated by few.

2.       Others indicate the disparity between the Haves and Have nots. For example, the literacy rate, women literacy, Life expectancy, Infant mortality rate, Gender ratio etc., because these are overall population literacy & health indicators. The population health and literacy is the real richness of a country. It automatically maintains even ecological richness.

In both these parameters China is ahead of India. But the interesting part is the progress made since economic reforms. The China and most other Asian countries like Taiwan, Korea initiated their reforms in the 80s. India initiated the reforms big time from ‘92 onwards. The improvement in the 2^nd set of parameters above by China during the reforms years is marginal. And in contrast India’s improvement is significant and is catching up overall and in several states better than China’s. And that largely is credited to the participative democracy. And also the author credits India for having No Famine in post Independent India as against China having seen famine in as late as 1960’s in communist china, perishing some 30+ million lives. In British India, we experienced Bengal Famine of 1940’s causing some 2 million deaths due to starvation and diseases.

And during NDA regime, India’s stats in the first indices soared high. But it lost the elections subsequently. Amartya doesn’t leave the opportunity to criticize the NDA regime along with connecting the reason for loss to the Gujarat riots. In any case, it would be good for the country if BJP leaders listen to the Sangh parivar’s socialist economic policy suggestions for the future.

In many South Indian temple sculptures I have visited, the local guides proudly present some of the Chinese visitors sculpted. Fa-Hian and Huen-Tsang are 2 of many such Chinese scholars who visited India during 4^th and 7^th century respectively. Interestingly they studied and held high positions in Nalanda for decade long. And what they carried back to their country apart from the philosophy & science is the implementation methodology of health care services in India.

The first dated printed book is a Chinese book of translation of a Sanskrit treatise. So the invention of printing technology is credited to China. But author argues that, Huen-Tsang carried Buddhist printed books to china from India. The printing technology has played significant role in public communication, literacy and schooling. But unfortunately, India lost many technologies, literature, research during the Nalanda destruction by the foreign invaders. 

I have here tried to put my views on the book taking contradictions within the book itself as much as possible. But history is very large and that too India’s is immense. We expect a lot from a book so aptly titled to describe the debate and argumentation based culture in India. The book in that aspect disappoints big time limiting only to Akbar, Tagore-Gandhi arguments and that’s it. Gandhian Charaka movement is jeered by Amartya in this book. Being an economist, that too an expert on famines, how his views are dismissive of Human Labour Oriented Cottage Industries and appreciative of Productivity based Industries? Is Nobel also rigged? In favor of Productivity based industries & economics?